The Practice of Leaving the Biological Father’s Name off the Birth Certificate
I wanted to talk about a comment that was received on this adoption infographic post; Birth Father’s Rights in Adoption. Not because the comment was “bad”, but because it opens up a discussion that probably should happen. I actually waited on approving the comment to be able to really have the chance to sit down and write about it.
“I named my daughter’s birth father as “unknown” and I am not ashamed of it. The day before she was born, he almost killed himself huffing freon and spent the next two months in intensive care. When she was 6, he went to prison for carjacking and armed robbery. When she was ten, he killed his cellmate.
It’s too bad more birthmothers aren’t given the benefit of the doubt about birthfathers. I made the right decision to keep him out of her life.”
Like the poster’s comment above, I, too, named my son’s father as “unknown” on Max’s birth certificate, but for different reasons. He wasn’t a bad man and was not in jail, rather, to be completely honest; I was both angry at him and felt ashamed of being pregnant. I didn’t want to talk to him and the adoption agency was all too happy to help me avoid him.
The Moral and Ethical Concerns of Informing Fathers in Adoption
Of course, back then, I was grateful that they did not make me talk to him and I was happy that they helped me do what I wanted. Of course, what I wanted, at age 19, was to somehow avoid the unpleasant reality that I was pregnant and face any conflict caused by that reality. Now, I look back at what they did and see it as “enabling” me to avoid that very present reality.
The adoption agency could have met my “needs” of avoidance and still done the right thing. They could have said;
“Yes, we understand that you do not wish to talk to this man, but there is a moral and ethical right to tell him that an adoption is planned for his yet unborn only child and he needs to know. We, acting on your behalf, can have that conversation for you or help you do it, but it must be done”
They, alas, never said that.
Instead they instructed me to name him as “unknown” on the birth certificate and somewhere in the fall or winter of 1987, placed an ad in some legal publication that listed the adoption plan of Max and my name. Through that, they terminated Max’s father’s paternal rights to a child that he had no idea existed until 19 years later.
I am ashamed of the part I played in denying this man this human rights to his only child. While I know I trusted and believed in the adoption professionals and they were they one’s who should have known better, I am sad that my fear and anger allowed it to happen. I will only eat my slice of regret pie.
When Danger Lurks: Saving a Child Thru Adoption
Now of course, my story is drastically different that the original commenter’s. The only “danger” Max’s dad could have shown was to the adoption process. He was, after all, a grown man of 45 and a New York City lawyer with his own firm and a name on the door. And while we were most likely never going to live happily ever after, he was never a bad man and he was very generous. While 1987 was before DNA testing, the fact is that child support would not have been a great battle as I suspect that he would have provided very well for his child. Adoption “saved” Max from nothing that was truly threatening except knowing his family from birth, living in NY rather than Boston and not being happy that the Boston Red Sox just won the World Series.
But what about the birthmother who places her child to save them from a truly dangerous father? I have heard enough personal anecdotal stories to know this exists and can even be chalked up as a “reason” to relinquish.
If you get mixed up with the wrong guy and then have his child, then you are often stuck dealing with him for another 18 years of not life. I can understand. I was actually really happy when Garin turned 18 and I didn’t have to talk to his father, my ex husband, anymore and really, his dad is NOT at all a “bad” man, just not someone I care to deal with anymore. Once upon a time when Rye and I were first together and things were not so great, I would wonder how the hell I would be able to even deal with him if we split up because I had envisioned him behaving rather badly. Having a child with a jerk is like shackling yourself for life. Even worse, all too many people use the children to hurt the partner; so not only are you trapped, but the father of your kid has a full right to your most vulnerable Achilles’ heel – your child!
So yes, mothers do relinquish their babies to adoption if they are in abusive relationships and can’t seem to get away from the fathers of their children. Mother relinquish their babies to adoption when they are angry at the father’s of their babies. I personally believe that Christy Maldonado, birth mother to Baby Veronica Brown falls into this category of “spiteful relinquishment”. I can say that I even fall into the partial category of relinquishing spitefully (it is also mixed up with a bunch of other stuff, too). Mother’s also relinquish babies to adoption to keep the children away from their truly bad and dangerous fathers. It’s a shame that this is accepted as a reason, rather than helping both mother and child be safe from said bad man, but we got to keep the baby coffers filled!
Can We Justify Shutting Out Fathers Ever?
So I do not doubt that the mother who commented really did what she sees as best for her daughter. And I do not doubt her story that he turned out to be even a more horrible man as time went on and her decision was justified.
Yet, I do not think that we CAN give birthmother’s card blanche to decide if father’s have a right to know their children because there are too many other factors that do come into it. In this case, yes. But I think perhaps I could have given a compelling argument at the time how Max’s father was sucky and I should have the right to decide, but, in time and hindsight, it would be wrong. There are often just too many emotions in play here; these people had a relationship at one point or at least something that got pretty physical; and now with hurt feelings and disappointment, anger and resentment, we have to learn to apply trust in a real life version of “She Said, He Said”? And that trust must always go to the mother who knows best?
See, I can’t do that. I am a realist; despite my insane optimism. I know all too many people, including women, including mothers, including people who look into adoption who are just done fucked up. In other words, just because you are a pregnant and about to have a child doesn’t always mean that you are thinking clearly and have a drama avoidance mechanism that kicks in. In fact, usually pregnancy hormones mean the opposite! I mean, I have cried hysterically because a store didn’t have YooHoo when I was pregnant! So we can’t just trust moms to “know best”; and that’s why there are supposed to be legal safe guards to protect father’s rights.
Of course the keywords here is “supposed to be”, because in reality, we know that father’s most often get screwed completely in the adoption process and are often seen as a mere inconvenience to relinquishment.
But let’s take this one step further; does a mother have the right to decide for her child that the child is better off not knowing about their father?
When Mothers Deny Fathers
I will admit to being conflicted here. Obviously, it is a wise decision to keep your child, adopted or not, away from any situation that could be dangerous. I would do the same myself should my own father attempt to come around; no way is he getting near my children – but my children know why. I haven’t told them some sweet story that their grandpa died. They know he is alive. They know we think he is in Nevada. They know he is a jerk and they will probably never met him. But he is also not their father, only their grandfather and it’s a little different. They don’t have to wonder how much their grandfather’s bad behavior and choices could influence their life as I am their buffer. And I don’t mean just in a buffer between my father and his influence, but as a buffer for the “bad blood”; they don’t worry if they are like him because they have me and know that I am not like him, so they don’t have to be.
But as a child of a real ass, with a brother who is a child of a real ass, and married to a man who was both raised by a real “bad” dude and fathered by an equally bad dude, I do know that we all have struggled at one time or another wondering if and how much influence their negativity can influence us. How much are we like them just because we were created by them? I question if not knowing the depth of a poor parents bad actions makes it easier as one does not have to wonder or if knowing as much as emotional understandable make is easier because one can acclimate to the knowledge over time in small bits and pieces?
Of course, that means that one is assuming that eventually the truth does come out.
Being Truthful About One’s Parentage
See, the thing is… I really do think that the truth usually does come out and if it hasn’t, it should! I mean the intent behind “protecting” a person form the ugly or not so ugly truth about one’s self might be begun as a kindness, but it is still a lie. So even if you love the person you wish to protect, you are betraying their trust and making a decisions for them based on your feelings, not theirs. You are not trusting them enough with knowledge that is theirs, not yours, to withhold. And no matter how much one believes they are helping, you still cannot change what is the ultimate bottom line; you cannot change what it; It is still the truth; however ugly, uncomfortable, yucky, or unpleasant. It still is what it is no matter what you try to cover it up with. Underneath it still lurks.
No matter what the child of the original poster is told; her father still had a drug issue, almost died, made some really bad choices, was in jail and eventually killed a man. Now can and should this mother protect her child form him directly? I would guess yes, but it is still this child’s father. And while he might be completely useless to her, the knowledge of what he really is not useless; it is her story. It is her truth. And nothing is going to change that.
And if eventually she finds out; will the collateral damage of his bad choices be that she is angry at her mother for not telling her? Will this girl/ woman/ child feel betrayed? Perhaps she had fantasies of her father and this breaks them down? Will that alter her sense of self? Will she wonder then if she has murderous blood in her own veins? I think it is more than a question of is it a good idea to do that even with good intentions and protection, but do we have the right to do that?
Adoptees Who Are Never Told of Their Fathers
I cannot even begin to count the numbers of adoptees I know who have fathers listed as “unknown” and birthmothers who refuse to tell them. Yeah, that are that many. It’s one of those huge big questions of “how to I ask my mother about my father; she refuses to talk about him” and can lead to some of the biggest adoption reunion blow outs. So many mothers are the single key to an adoptee knowing half of their identity, half their family tree, half the unanswered questions and often that key is swallowed and taken to the grave. If a mother is to die, before the adoptee is found or before the question is asked or answered, then that “unknown” on the birth certificate truly becomes a real looming dark unknown. It’s not just a word on a piece of paper. I don’t know who these mothers feel they are protecting, but I have to say, I very strongly feel that it is wrong.
We do not have the right to withhold an other’s person’s truth. Knowledge is not to be withheld and handed out by morsel or based on protection or best intentions. A persona’s father is a person’s father; whether he is good or bad; you cannot undo biology, you cannot undo the truth. Even if one must deny the father the child, denying the child the truth about one’s father is wrong.
So to the original commenter; I say: I hear you and understand why you didn’t tell him; but did you tell her? I hope so.
And to any other birthmother’s holding back father information; I ask you, I beg you; let it go. You are not the keeper. Give your child the reality of knowing and then stand with them as they fiqure out what it means to them.
Truth is Truth.
When I applied for my social notes ( Australia ) I discovered the father had been charged and convicted with having sex with a minor . I had given them his name age address etc…..yet on my daughters original birth certificate it says father unknown. I did not register her birth. Some random social worker must have. I also discovered for the first time he had been married with a child…….
Great post – hopefully it will be heard. One of my pet peeves is the way fathers are treated in adoption. Breaks my heart.
One person doesn’t get to decide for an entire family! A first mom may think she is only withholding the name of one person, but that isn’t the case.
She is withholding MY – the adoptee’s – name from my siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins. She is withholding MY – the adoptee’s – children’s names from their great grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins. She is withholding relationships that may actually explain and help us understand the behaviors of the one “bad” person. She is withholding medical information that could help us make important decisions that our life may depend upon. She is withholding from herself the opportunity to be free of secrets.
Some of us want so little. Maybe nothing more than to hear the name, or to see a picture. Sometimes it has so little to do with that “bad” person and more to do with fitting in a piece to a puzzle. We want to know the facts of how we came to be instead of feeling like some mythological creature.
It’s about me – the adoptee. So please don’t withhold the ability for me to know myself.
Even when someone is a genuinely bad person, too, it does not follow that the entire family is bad. There always seems to be that one person in any family who came out “not wired right” and the rest of the family might be perfectly lovely. There’s no way to find out, though, except by meeting them. Which of course you cannot do if no one will tell you where you came from.
Claud, as an adult adoptee who just met her dad a few years ago you are spot on. My dad accepted me wholeheartedly. My best friend did not have the same experience I did and was rejected by her birth father. She has the right as do I to know the truth, even if it is painful, and then she has the right to accept it, wrestle with it, whatever. I think a lot of adopted people are so sick and tired of other people deciding what is best for them, treating us like little children who can’t think for themselves. We were babies, then…I get it. But babies grew up. For me, I would want to know the truth no matter what it looked like, but that is just me…it’s the not knowing that hurts so damned much. I am not better nor my friend worse for the character of our fathers or mothers…it just IS.
Supposedly my father was already married with two preteen daughters. I was born in the 60’s. Could women point a finger at a married man (or any man) and say that, that person is the one and now he has to give up his first family? How damaging that would have been if he wasn’t the father. It is almost as if the man is guilty and has to prove his innocence. On the other hand, didn’t the rest of my dad’s family have the right to know that their dad or husband was out banging the local waitress? In the end, did my mother save a family from ruin?
save a family from ruin? What about her family? it was ruined anyway………
There are very few women who dont know who the father of their children are…thats a myth….a total phurphy……provided by the people who have the most to gain from adoptions…..
My point is that most often mothers didn’t fill in their own registration paperwork……it was filled in by some one else…….some one who had lots to gain by stating father unknown…..so after mum has left this world……the lies will continue……
I agree with you totally Claud but there’s another issue here: the law.
Currently most (if not all states) will not issue a BC with the name of the father without the father’s written consent. (this is the case of unmarried parents). So the only fathers who get listed “legally” are husbands or acknowledged fathers.
My feeling is that there have been differing reasons for the practice of leaving father’s names off., including “saving the man’s reputation on the part of social workers, courts, hospitals or the mother herself.:
I know a lawyer how had a child with her boyfriend her last year of law school in the late 1960s.. She put his name on the BC, but it was removed by a nun social worker at the hospital. When the cert was returned to her for her signature, the mother and father complained but was told it as “hospital policy” and that the baby would not be released until she signed the cert as is. There was probably no force of law behind it, but at the time the couple just wanted to get the baby and get out of there. to get out of there so they went along with it. She and the father went to court the following year, had the name added, and the judge thought the whole hospital episode as absurd.
Currently, there is the matter of paternity fraud, with women just naming somebody on the BC without his knowledge or consent. There have been some big lawsuits over the years over this. I remember one crazy case a few year ago case where man, even though he was not the the father, had never heard of the mother, and DNA proved he wasn’t the father, was ordered to pay a huge amount of back child support. (I hope he won on appeal) under the court’s rationalization that everything on the man’s side was a lie—even science–and the mother would never lie about such a thing. Hmm, yeah. Right.
Anyway,a big part of the current problem is the fear of paternity fraud., and since it’s the mother who controls what gets up on the BC the burden lies with her to tell the truth and get the guy to consent.
I don’t’ know how to clear that up. Either Costa Rica or Nicaragua has a law the forces DNA tests on all fathers to determine if he actually is. Imagine how that really screws up relationships. We shouldn’t have to go that far to get this whole thing fixed.
As a PS the lack of a father name on the BC isn’t limited to OBCs in adoptino cases. I’ve known several kept bastards whose fathers name do not appear on the BC an their mothers refuse to give out a name. I don’t understand how a mother in any situation can deny a father’s identity to their kid. So what if he’s a creep.
I am all for mandatory DNA testing for all newborns. People will get used to it just like they are used to having hand printing and foot printing done. I bet people would step out on their spouse less if we did. Married women can sleep with men that are not their husbands and make him raise a kid that is not his.
Well I know when the two youngest chilins were born, Rye and I were not legally married yet…so along with the BC, we also filled out paternity paperwork that he signed for that I would think would elevate all that legal mumbo jumbo.
I also thinks it just a lousy when parents divorce when the kid is young and mom remarries and the step dd gets the name on BC. Sorry.. dad might be a dead beat, but he is still the dad!
Well if the step dad legally adopts the child and the birth father surrenders his rights.. Wait what we need is a birth certificate with mom and dad and then an adoption certificate for anything afterwards. There, twice the paperwork but what the heck. I would have my birth certificate of my mom and dad and then my adopted parents would have had their own certificate.
Not all states require step-parent adoptions to amend the OBC.
My father is not on my birth certificate because, at the time I was born, Wisconsin law stated that only married father’s could be named on the birth certificate! The spaces on my birth certificate are “mother” and “husband”! My parents did get married later on and I want to have my father put on my birth certificate but the process is onerous. First I have to get a copy of their marriage certificate, then get written permission from both my parents, and then petition the court to have my father placed on my birth certificate. Nuts huh?
My mother made that decision right up until she took her final breath. She felt she was doing the right thing by keeping MY personal information – MY paternity, from me. She chose wrong. I have often said if she could feel my pain for one moment, she would realize. But that was impossible. She had no idea how her decision not only caused me to suffer but also my husband and children. Thank you, Claudia, for bringing this very important issue to light. It is my prayer that no other human being on the face of the earth would ever have to face this kind of pain.
Much love to you
Claude, thank you for this most important post. As you know, my mother made the choice to withhold MY information from me until her dying day. It was MY paternal information, not just her personal info. If she only knew how much pain her choice caused me, I am convinced she never would have made that choice. It also caused my husband and children a lot of pain. An adult has no right to make this kind of decision for another adult. My prayer is that no human being on the face of the earth would ever have to know this kind of pain.
Love you and appreciate you, Claude
~Deanna
I am another of those adoptees whose mothers lied to her about her father. The lies were compelling. When I first spoke with her a few years ago, I asked her about the man she’d named in my agency file, the man a CI had found, deceased in Nevada in 1994. She told me that no, she’d been drunk at a frat party when I was conceived and had made up all those details; the man in my file was a fiction. I believed her; I hurt for her. Having a baby from a one-night stand would be terribly hard, I imagined. At the same time, I didn’t want to give up my search for my father, even though my mother asked me to.
It hurt even more to find out that she’d lied to *me* about lying to the agency! After doing a test through 23andMe, I matched with a paternal first cousin. We tried to figure out how we were related, and I went to her with the details I had from my file, those “made up” things my mother had shared with the agency. “Oh,” my cousin said, “That’s Uncle E. He died of a heart attack in Nevada in 1994.” My blood ran cold.
I had found my father; he was gone. Worse, my mother had lied to me for years about not knowing who he was: his name was in my file, all that time–I know this because the CI had found him: it all matched, as did our DNA and our likenesses. Whatever my parents’ story, I deserved to know about it, from HER. I trusted her. She may not have liked my father. He may have left her; I don’t know her side. But she also never told him she was pregnant before he moved across the country. That is sad. He never even *had* the chance to step up. So many what ifs.
Being lied to, and having secrets kept from me, has been terribly painful. I wish I could be sympathetic to her motivations, but right now, I cannot even begin to do so. I have children of my own, and lying to them is not something that I could do. Okay, I understand shame. But at some point, it has to be recognized that adoptees are humans and deserve to know our stories, all of them, just as much as the next human.
It turns out that I am so very like my father was. Maybe that’s another reason my mother didn’t want to tell me anything about him…
Growing up I always knew I was adopted and that my father was Italian. What I did not know was that I was conceived on the East coast.
Since this topic was posted, I have learned that the east coast is referred to as the “dumping ground for the Mafia’s bastard babies”. I have no idea what it is like to be part of the Family, or to be a mistress of a mobster (gosh mom, I hope that it was exciting for you), but, what if women were running for their lives and their babies lives?
What better place to hide and protect your child, but within the adoption industry? No father’s name on the OBC. Mob father learns baby is placed and all is good. Thoughts?
Sounds plausible. I wonder how one might research this: I am sure it’s not easy. Very complicated, heartbreaking, and difficult. Someone needs to write about it.
I believe that we should leave it up to the court to decide if the father is truly as bad as the mother claims he is.
My father never knew about me until I was 13. Both sets of grandparents saw to that. I don’t know what my mother was told because she still does not want to talk to me about my dad even though she knows I know him.
I can see clearly how a mother might want to protect a “child” but once that child becomes and adult we have the right to know what the truth is no matter how painful and decide how we want to respond. I can understand so well how at the time the mother can be confused, swayed by the agency or family, or even feel protective.
In my case my father is a good man and he and I have a wonderful relationship. My mother does not and did not think he is so good because of her perception that he abandoned her, but he did not know so could not have abandoned her. So much hurt. And what is my role? Do I push her to tell her the truth? For now she says she won’t talk about him, so I respect that and choose to have a relationship with both of them without talking to her about him…always in the middle…a role I know too well! And I love them both.
Thanks, Claud, for a wonderful and honest piece…as always!
I wish my bio mother had lied. He’s not bad, but the fact is is that some people aren’t positive influences. If I have a child, it will definitely be my call whether a father is identified. No guilt.
I want to say that the system does not always protect children and mothers. In Texas, they are very “pro fathers’ rights”. I filed for child support when my son was 6 months old. I thought surely that having been convicted of Aggravated Assault with a Deadly weapon against me while I was pregnant with our son would keep this monster from having access to him. It didn’t. After a few months of supervised visitation with my son, his biological father now has standard visitation, and gets my son unsupervised on weekends. There is no way to explain the fear and terror. I deeply regret trusting the system, and if I had it to do over, I would keep his name off the birth certificate, and keep him out of my son’s life. If you’ve never been in a life threatening situation, then you don’t know the danger. The laws don’t always protect our children.
Nope it totally doesn’t. And it totally sucks that you have to deal with this. I’m sorry.
Now, if you had done an adoption, he would have been assumed to be a horrible man as many fathers are- whether it is true or not. But parenting.. nope- you are left to hang out to dry. There’s a huge inconsistency wen a bad father has rights and a good father has none and the real difference is adoption being in the equation.
I understand the need of the adoptee to know who their biological father is but what if the mother truly doesn’t know? We are in the process of getting guardianship over a child who’s mother has passed away. She didn’t know who the father was and due to circumstances didn’t want to find out. She signed over custody to us in her will, non family, and we want to adopt the child. However down the road when she asks there will always be an unknown.
if you don’t really know, then you don’t really know. That is the truth.
I know this is really old and you may not read these pages any more, but I want to add to what Jody said about the system not protecting children and mothers. In approximately 30 states, a rapist is allowed to sue for visitation. I can’t imagine being raped and being forced to deal with my rapist again and again until my child is 18. If a mother chooses adoption instead and leaves the father listed as “unknown,” I can’t really fault her.
hi i got the birft father name but not the mother name of my adoption can you help with location of the adoption date. of mine. and were do i go for it,
Some birth fathers have been denied the right to know their children.
We recently found out we have a 26 year old granddaughter.
Our son left for military service and never knew he had created a baby girl.
She is 26 years old now and as grandparents we feel that our son and our family should have the right to find our granddaughter. Our granddaughter was born in the greater Kansas City. Missouri or Kansas area. May 5, 1990 – help us!
I don’t give two hoots about the cad who whined about how uncomfortable it was to wear a condom. Stupid jerk took advantage of my weakness, my need to feel loved and to have the affection I never got from my father. I took risks with him a handful of times and the fourth or fifth time was my undoing. I became pregnant. The creep was told, he hid behind his parents while I paid 100% for our carelessness, he knew the agency that was handling the adoption, he stayed in touch with me throughout the pregnancy but did not show up at the hospital when I gave birth, (lied in reunion to the adoptee and said that he did!). I don’t recall that his name was put on the birth certificate because he did not show up to sign it, (was probably worried about getting stuck with child support payments). Later he did show up to sign the relinquishment papers, of course. In my opinion, he had no right to be listed on the birth certificate.
In reunion, I once again played the role of the all-giving, noble birthmother and quickly shared his name with my “son.” After grappling on my own for months with the emotions and memories that reunion brought to the surface, my counselor helped me to see that I WAS NOT responsible for the relationship between this cad and “his” “son.” Like me, he could have had his contact information on file with the agency, but he NEVER did. I did that SOB such a favor when I informed him that “our” “son” found me. I felt responsible for everyone’s happiness, (just like all those decades ago!).
I don’t agree that birthmothers owe their children the names of their fathers. These are men who took advantage and risked the emotional and physical health and well being of the girl/women many of them professed to love. Then when the s*** hit the fan, they either did not man up and do the right thing, or they never knew about the pregnancy because they never followed up to see if they sired a child or not. I once read that in the state of New Jersey, women are not required to inform the “father” before they place a child for adoption. The reasoning is that EVERY TIME a man has sex he has potentially created a child and he should see it that way. If he is interested in finding out about any children he may have sired, he should contact the former sex partner at a later date. If he doesn’t do that, then too bad! The woman is the one left to suffer the consequences 100%. The guy made it clear that he is not at all interested in any possible offspring if he doesn’t follow up with the woman he had sex with. With that gesture, he seals his fate, in my opinion. Why should the woman caretake the offspring and the “father?” Haven’t we done enough by choosing life and by making the sacrifices that come with pregnancy? I say, “Yes.”
And did I understand correctly, Claude? You were 19, he was 45 at the time? If that is true, that SOB abused and took advantage of a woman much younger than him — it must have given him such a power rush. What a jerk. You did the right thing leaving his name off of the certificate, in my opinion. He had sex with you without any thought of the consequences. These cads are the types of men who shouldn’t be reproducing EVER!
@Ariel…I know this is all several months late, but if you see this:
“Our son left for military service and never knew he had created a baby girl.”
Why? Because you never taught him the facts of life?!
Please see my previous post about how New Jersey handles this, (or at least used to handle this). It takes two to tango! Why would the mother be responsible to contact your son? He had sexual relations, then left for the military. Was he in touch with this girl? Was she his girlfriend? If they had a strong enough relationship, she most likely would have told him about the baby. If he really wanted to be sure as to whether or not he sired a child, he needed to follow up himself, or ask you to follow up, if he was unable to due to his military service.
Why do guys think they can have their kicks and then claim to be a victim who never knew about a child? For crying out loud: you had sex, you may have created a child, so if you REALLY care, then follow up! If you don’t and are subsequently not recognized on the birth certificate, then I would say that’s fair.